Grr

[badseed1980]

Sorry.

Sorry sorry sorry.

I try. Don't think I don't. It's NOT fucking easy.

Sometimes I want to pull an Oedipus--gouge those fuckers right out. Take my tongue too, while I'm at it. And hell, why not my heart? Then I won't see anything to hurt and won't say anything to hurt, and I won't hurt at all anymore.

Comments

[tisana.livejournal.com]

That...was not...fair...at all.

I was not implying any of the things you said, there was no undercurrent there, no condescension, no resentment of you or your preferences.

I was trying to be easygoing about everything, not to make anyone uncomfortable, and you read into that, I don't know how, or why.

I did not fucking deserve that.

Have a bad day on your own time.

You want to talk this out, email me.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

I did e-mail you.

And yes, I did feel like there was some resentment in there, and you were just trying to be nice and not say it. But I thought it was there, and that hurt. And the feelings were in part brought up by things Morgan has said to me in the past that hurt me. It wasn't all you, so I'm sorry that I took it out on you.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

And I read into it because for months now, Morgan has drilled it into my head that it's me and my hysterical hurt-induced reactions that make you uncomfortable expressing yourself to him in public forums. I've pretty much gotten the, "We can't be fully expressive and it's because of you" line. That's why I read what I did when I read your e-mail.

[tisana.livejournal.com]

Oh, c'mon, you know by now that if something sounds outrageous we should double-check with the other, we can't depend on his paraphrasing.

Yes, some of my restraint is due to you, and yes, that is what I told him. But it is my interpretation of how you would feel and react that I am following, not what you and he insist are the case.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

See, I didn't think it sounded outrageous.

I always am afraid that I am a thorn in everyone's side in this relationship. It sounded right and just to me that you would feel that too, when he said those things. Made me mad at myself for being that way.

[tisana.livejournal.com]

"See, I didn't think it sounded outrageous."

OK, fine. It wasn't. Should've said: "If it's something that really upsets you, make allowance that it might not be what was actually said or intended, and do a perception check."

There is no need to be mad at yourself, OK? No need to feel badly that you feel the way you do. That was not at all what was intended. All I meant by "...for now" is that we'll start with these guidelines and figure it out as we go.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

OK.

I'm sorry if I pissed you off. I wasn't trying to lash out at you or anything. I was just getting upset, because I felt like I was getting pressured from two directions to make changes to myself that are not easy to force, and not easy to rush. It made me feel more than ever like a fool. I often feel that way, for not being able to blithely and happily go along with this whole setup without feeling hurt or loss or jealousy. Surrounded by so many people who ARE that way in their polyamorous relationships, or who come off that way whenever I see them, makes it that much harder. I know nobody is without problems in a relationship, but I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who can't deal with this out of most of the people I know. It makes me feel like Anapol's book on polyamory seems to describe monogamous people: unevolved people who just haven't seen the light, silly creatures.

Prejudice within a minority

[dee-cee.livejournal.com]

" unevolved people who just haven't seen the light, silly creatures."

Yeah, I've heard bi people speak about straight and gay people the same way.

And it's bullshit. All of it. Different people love different. No one is more evolved that the other. It's just DIFFERENT.

Same goes for within poly community. Just cause you're poly means your love is going to be the same pattern as everyone else.

Jesus, if everyone loved the same, Pride and the Flea wouldn't exist, and life would be pretty fucking boring.

Stop conforming to what you think "loving poly" is, and love Morgan the only way you know how - as Laura.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Stop conforming to what you think "loving poly" is, and love Morgan the only way you know how - as Laura.

But see, I can't do that. If I don't give him what he needs, he'll resent it. It's not just "bad poly", it's bad for the relationship. If I say, "You can't do this even if it's something you need AND she needs, because it will hurt me", I am doing something wrong. I guess they're willing to give me time to change, but I do have to change eventually, because I'm just being selfish by asking them to cater to me.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[dee-cee.livejournal.com]

"because I'm just being selfish by asking them to cater to me."

Does it feel like most of the time, that its' 2 against 1?

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Not like they're ganging up on me, but like I'm the odd man out. I'm the one who's holding things back. And not always, but sometimes. In certain situations. This being one.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[dee-cee.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I wasnt' implying ganging up either.

I understand your view of "odd person out."

You've already said there's no question of ending this, just making it work.

So all I can do is wish you strength to make that possible.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

thanks :)

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[autumnsshadow.livejournal.com]

a lesson i've learned this week is that there is a difference between being hurt by something and being uncomfortable with something. that's something you need to determine about the situation. if you're uncomfortable then chances are that likely makes it your problem to deal with...if you're hurt, then that's likely a problem to be dealt with in the context of the relationship(s). asking people you are involved with to consider you is not the same as asking them to cater to you. open communication and compromise(i.e. - everyone involved being ok with the way things stand, if not comfortable) is about the only thing that'll keep any relationship, poly or not, working.
hope that helps a bit.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[autumnsshadow.livejournal.com]

and by your problem to deal with, i meant that it's possibly something you have to come to terms with and find a way to live with it, not that you should keep it to yourself or deal with it completely by yourself...

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Well, that's what I consider this.

But it's pain that I feel. Not just the awkwardness that I characterize as discomfort.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know which you'd consider this. If it tears me up inside, but I feel like that is the result of my own problems and not theirs, is that uncomfortable? Or hurt?

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[autumnsshadow.livejournal.com]

if it's a case of something they're doing that's triggering some insecurity/issue you have that isn't actually founded in the relationship itself then unfortunately that's something that you probably should deal with... about the only thing you can reasonably expect from anyone else is that they try to help you work on it and compromise with you enough that you aren't hurting as a result.
but to actually answer your question, in the context i was using it, discomfort can be defined exactly the way you put it...it tears me up inside, but I feel like that is the result of my own problems.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Well, ok. But asking them to compromise is what's making me feel guilty.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[autumnsshadow.livejournal.com]

just keep in mind that compromise isn't always about everyone getting what they want, but rather that everyone comes away feeling they've gotten the chance to express what they want or need and that the resolution is something that everyone can live with. not an easy thing to grasp at first...i know i'm still struggling with the concept.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

See, in terms of the nature of the relationship itself, the structure of it, the compromise has been me saying, "Well, it's pretty much the exact opposite of what I want and need in a relationship, but I'll try it."

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[autumnsshadow.livejournal.com]

ugh...

why then, if you don't want it? granted, not really my business, but why put yourself in a place where you don't think you'll get what you need and want and potentially hurt yourself?

i do hope it works out somehow.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Because I think it's possible that I can change, maybe, and that if treated well, I will find that this CAN fulfill my needs. And because losing the man I love would be more painful, as far as I can judge.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[autumnsshadow.livejournal.com]

i'd also point out that this is a compromise you've made, not a compromise made by everyone involved...which essentially isn't compromising(as i'm starting to learn myself as well)

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[tisana.livejournal.com]

"And it's bullshit. All of it. Different people love different. No one is more evolved that the other."

Uh, yeah, let me second that. I don't like that I feel, as a poly person, the need to reassure people that I find nothing wrong with monogamy, because there's so many out there who hold the "Oh, you're just un-enlightened" view of mono. Pisses me off. Listen, if you're part of a minority, then you've probably dealt with ignorance and discrimination--why would you perpetuate that? Who and how you love is a personal choice, and should be respected.

I may disagree about the part about no one being more evolved. Some Neanderthal men think being jealous, controlling, and outright abusive to their lovers is acceptable...because they "only do it because they love them" or some such bull. I won't claim that what they feel isn't love, but I would make the judgment that they express it inappropriately.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Some Neanderthal men think being jealous, controlling, and outright abusive to their lovers is acceptable

See, and I fear that (except for the abusiveness), this is how I'm being seen in this situation. I really don't want to come off that way.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[tisana.livejournal.com]

Um. No. Not even close.
The things you're feeling, while related (at least in name), are nowhere near being on the same scale of unacceptable behavior I was referring to. I understand that this kind of relationship is not your preference, and you're acting accordingly...which is not to say, inappropriately.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Ok.

I'm glad you don't think so. Thank you.

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

I don't see it that way either.

And I am sure I have done/said things that made you feel that way.

sorry is not good enough, but, for now, it is all I can say.

143

Re: Prejudice within a minority

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

You have.

And I do appreciate the apology. <3

[gracejames.livejournal.com]

I’ll say to you what I said to a friend who was going through romantic tribulations not long ago:

Love shouldn’t be this hard. Yes it takes work, but it should never be this hard.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Shouldn't isn't a helpful word, though.

It IS this hard. But it IS love. All around.

So there's nothing to do but make it work or give up the loved one. And that would hurt even more.

[gracejames.livejournal.com]

But if it is that hard, is it really worth it? I guess you will reach your breaking point. Everyone does one day. It just seems as though both roads lead to heartache. One seems infinite and the other seems finite.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Short answer: yes. It is.

And I know you're just offering sympathy, but hearing "Well, it'll all end in tears one way or another" is kind of...I dunno. Not a good thing.

[gracejames.livejournal.com]

I dunno, I’m not much of a romantic and more of realist. May you draw upon your own strength to come to terms with your situation. I hope everyone get a little of what they want and need.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

I'm a realist myself. And a romantic. I believe that it IS possible for love to conquer all. But that's only because love is the fuel and the motivation that enables you to do the necessary hard work to make a relationship function.

[gracejames.livejournal.com]

I leave you with a quote I heard in a movie.

"You are what you love, not what loves you."

Peace out.

[p-firesinger.livejournal.com]

OK, here is an analogy, maybe not the best one, but here goes:

I have been in no less than 5 car accidents of varying severity in my lifetime. Three of these had the potential to take my life. One of them caused me to go into rehab. I still drive a car.

I do not need to, the bus comes near my house and I can take a train anywhere I need to be that is a long distance. But I still drive a car.

I do not let past wrecks that I have been in or the almost guaranteed future wrecks I will be in stop me from getting on the road.

In the same light, I will love with all my heart, knowing that love is imperfect and at times unrequited. I will love with all my being for the hope that for a few moments now and then I will experience the perfect love between me and my partner. It is worth the pain along the way to gain that bliss. It is worth the trials and tribulations to obtain that fleeting moment. The alternative is to not interact with the living world.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Damned straight.

[tigira.livejournal.com]

WHAT HAPPENED?!?!?! *huuuuuuug*

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Nothing. Never mind. Talk later.

punishments

[erik-j-meyer.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I want to pull an Oedipus--gouge those fuckers right out.

The Swollen Foot one only did this after realizing that he had committed an act forbidden by the gods themselves. Nevermind that they committed it. So this should be reserved for big things only, ok?

Take my tongue too, while I'm at it.

This is reminding me of that 'unspoken of punishment' that they exact on the bad guy in th eremake of 'The Mummy'. Notice that this was for the crime of treason. Not a crime against the gods, but at least against the nation. Still, a pretty big item.

And hell, why not my heart?

Most tortures shy away from immediate life ending acts. If only to prolong your ability to feel. As long as you can feel you have the capacity to experience joy and pain in equal measure.

[dolphindream.livejournal.com]

Laura sweetie--I have actually been following as much of this on lj as I can, and sorry I haven't commented sooner--I've considered trying to say something helpful, but nothing has really come to me. So, all I'm saying is *HUG* still think you're great, and this whole thing is really, really tough. My heart and thoughts are with you.

*HUG*

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

thank you :)

I can just work on it. That's all I can do.