(no subject)

[badseed1980]

I will not bring the what-is-and-isn't-Wicca debate to PolyMatchMaker.
I will not bring the what-is-and-isn't-Wicca debate to PolyMatchMaker.
I will not bring the what-is-and-isn't-Wicca debate to PolyMatchMaker.
I will not bring the what-is-and-isn't-Wicca debate to PolyMatchMaker.
I will not bring the what-is-and-isn't-Wicca debate to PolyMatchMaker.
I will not bring the what-is-and-isn't-Wicca debate to PolyMatchMaker.

Instead, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut on the forum while know-nothings imply that traditionalism = stagnation and no room for growth. Blah.

Comments

LOL

[shades-of-nyx.livejournal.com]

I wonder if my membership on PMM is still valid. I stopped hanging out there about 18 months ago because the discussions seemed to go in circles and I got bored.
Now, I'm tempted to go peek in just for laughs.
I don't, personally, think we have a solid and consistant answer to the "what-is-and-isn't-Wicca" debate. It becomes even crazier when we substitute "BTW" for "Wicca" in the question!
I've learned, due to repeated chewing on my feet, that I should really keep my mouth shut and let the Elders hash this one out. (You probably saw me step in this proverbial "pile of poo" on A&J a couple of weeks ago.)
To add an interesting tidbit to our database, I've asked kennyfiddler the "BTW or non-BTW" question on several different occasions and gotten different answers each time. One answer was "ATW with British roots" another was "definitely Wicca, let the conservative side of the BTW house decide whether to include us."
In short, I believe you are wise to hold your tongue, even though you've probably chewed through it by now!

Re: LOL

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

One interesting thing would be to look through the A&J archives for those on both sides of the discussion about B* and BTW.

Email me off LJ and I'll give you the msg #s.

[greendalek.livejournal.com]

Very wise.

I find that introducing religion --ANY religion-- into the discussions on polyfamilies.org (a forum I co-founded with my exes and still hang out at (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/polyfamilies/)) tends to sour the whole darned conversation and render the whole darned thread unfriendly. Good call.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Oh, the thread is already about religion--Paganism and Wicca, specifically. But I'm not going to argue with people who are sneering about something important to me, just because I don't want to get into it.

[oakdragon.livejournal.com]

That is probably the healthiest way to go. :-)

Shame on you!

[oakdragon.livejournal.com]

Now I'm going to have to deal with the temptation to take a peek, just to see what you're mantra-ing about. ;-)

Re: Shame on you!

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

"My point here is to recognize that Wicca/Neopaganism is an evolving set of systems. Much is made in older literature about "traditions", but this position is evolving too. Look at the differences between TWB and their latest book "Progressive Witchcraft"

"And that's the beauty of it, though it does make it difficult to describe. The older works of Starhawk and the Farrars are still valid: you can even carve them in stone and practice just that way forever, if you want to. But know that the creators of those works are evolving and moving on."

As though to say that moving away from tradition is clearly moving in the right direction, and that traditionalists are clearly people who want everything set in stone and are a relic of the old days, rather than progressive like those "evolved" people.

Re: Shame on you!

[oakdragon.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the text. I'll be more likely to have the willpower to stay away. :-)

I've known of many Traditionalist teachers whose teachings have evolved over time to incorporate their ongoing exploration. Nothing to stop that.

My own Not-so-humble-opinion is that this issue keeps coming up because many of the fluffies don't want to put in the time and effort to learn an intiatory tradition before adding their own variations.

It's like the many (far too many) artists who move directly to abstract art without really mastering the basic disciplines. I've felt that there are a number of third-rate abstract artists who paint abstract because it can be done independent of mastery of the medium, because there is no standard of success by which their works will be judged.

Re: Shame on you!

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me splashing paint on a canvas randomly isn't the same as Jackson Pollack doing it. :)

Re: Shame on you!

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Not too many non-fluffy types on there.

Re: Shame on you!

[oakdragon.livejournal.com]

Their words are saying "We don't need no stinkin' degrees," but their tone seems to be saying "Validate me! Validate me!"

Re: Shame on you!

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

LOL! The fluffy paradox!

Re: Shame on you!

[oakdragon.livejournal.com]

To be fair, BTW has not been totally immune. When I first started studying, so many were so hung up on how ancient Wicca was, how Christianity was an interloper.

The biggest reminder of it was in a work of Fiction, Cat Magic by Whitley Streiber. At her initiation, the main character had a past life memory. She remembered being a Neolithic priestess whose tribe was fleeing the glacial advance. She could feel two leather garters on her leg and knew that the one of those was the very same one she had on her leg in the current day. She wondered what happened to the other one. There are many who believed in the unbroken tradition. My own first Wiccan teacher took Timlet's "Seedbearer" series as historical fiction--Wicca arose out of Druidism, which arose out of the Antlantean Priesthood.

Re: Shame on you!

[oakdragon.livejournal.com]

To clarify. My own philosophy is that it doesn't matter if your tradition was handed down from mother to daughter since the "Atlantean Diaspora" or if you were inspired a few weeks ago at Starwood (or even last Saturday while laying in the bathtub). What matters is "does your practice provide some value to you, does it help you to live your life?" Such a simple measure followed by so few.

[wolf-kells.livejournal.com]

*blink*

Do you use the same username on PMM that you do here? I have other Pagan friends (from college) who are very active on that site. Small world!

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

Yep!